sides
If you want the backstory click here. Otherwise, I’m divin’ in.
Mark 10:42-45 throws down three huge principles.
Principle 1: Leadership isn’t hierarchial. Also see this.
Jesus was the leader - hence heirarchy. I’ll agree with fact. I’m not buying the conclusion. Jesus is STILL the leader. He is STILL alive, STILL speaks, STILL directs. The rub of the matter is HOW TO DISCERN THAT.
Paul’s idea (I think it was the Spirit’s idea, but you get the idea) was that a community/plurality of leaders COULD discern that will. IF they focused on prayer, preaching the word, “doing the work of the ministry”.
Check out Titus, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy - Paul always set up a plurality of leaders to determine how that local church was going to incarnate the message of Jesus. Paul himself was a product of such plurality - see Acts 13:1-4. One minor rabbit here - it’s leaders - gifted and called, not a huge congregation vote. (Which is my heritage…which in some of my more jaded moments I have called “pooled ignorance.”)
Of course some of that was their own Jewish Tradition of how they did church…but that tradition - at least in my opinion - was God-given.
Does this mean that there is ‘no leader’? Absolutely not - God gifts the body, we grow and exercise those gifts IN COMMUNITY, they are used and affirmed in the Body.
It just means that there is “no trump” card, we don’t lead out of a position or title.
My guess most of us agree here - again, my guess. The problem comes when we think we have a word from the Lord to do this and the community of leaders around us think differently. What do you do then?
That situation challenges our assumptions of how God speaks to the core. How would you answer that?
3 responses so far ↓
1 Nelson // Mar 15, 2005 at 12:46 pm
“The problem comes when we think we have a word from the Lord to do this and the community of leaders around us think differently. What do you do then?”
My cynical reply is:
You create a horrible stir within your congregation causing the church body to split. This either enables the leaving portion to go to another congregation where their views are more majority vote, or another church is planted / denomination started. Either way, the original congregation is shattered and broken.
2 pete porter // Mar 15, 2005 at 10:08 pm
Stu,
The are five offices mentioned in the word. Apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, and teacher. I think we can call them mantle’s or anointing of the Person of Jesus. They are a part of himself to cloth (enable)those he choses.The peeking order would be the same. According to the most responsible having the more authority.If a word of the Lord is known to be that, by anyone else, they should wait for the Lord’s timing. If that word is not allowed or reconized. Then that cannot be given, the Lord will not force his word on anyone. In this situation, I would ask the Lord to release me from that church, to a place where the Lord is free to minister. Either by the leaders, or with there approval.This is a tough place to be in, knowing what to do or say, or the direction of the Lord, and not having the authority in the church to help them understand God’s will.
Pete
3 gene // Mar 16, 2005 at 10:54 am
Dude,
Got the Jesus and serve part, and I get the hiearchy idea, but Jesus didn’t set up any structures while around here. He created the flatest org around. We add structures with chains of command to lead people. Wonder what it would look like without the organized church?
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