sides
Wayne asked this…
How many un-gifted, un-called, and un-qualified folks are in positions they shouldn’t be in but have gotten there? And to what degree (if any) does this worsen the condition?
Is there a way to truly redeem this worldwide? Or is the Body not really the Body? Are we too fragmented?
Let’s try to be fair here. We’ve got these qualifications in Timothy and Titus that I won’t bore you with all the details here. Most churches get this, understand it, and buy into it. So I don’t think there are an abundance of situations where the leadership is unqualified. Everyone ought to qualify.
Here’s the part that is almost always forgotten - giftedness. The Spirit gave gifts to be used for the edification of the Body. Guess what a couple of those gifts were? Any coincidence with the offices in a church? Teaching, shepherding, and leadership all seem to be integral to the elder/church leadership office. Most churches don’t even stop to ask this question. The thinking is if they are qualified, they are called. That, IMHO, is the kind of thinking that hamstrings a leadership team.
The last piece is calling. That mystical, God-touch. Does the person have it? Do others recognize it? Are they already incarnating the values and mission of the church? Have they been faithful serving in other areas? Are they reproducing leaders, making disciples?
If all three don’t line up - they are great people, great servants, great volunteers. But they shouldn’t be responsible for “leading” the church.
So the long answer to the first part is - I think the breakdown in most churches (and ministry teams) is two out of the three are out of whack.
Does this worsen the condition? Arguable. Some would say yes, an organization/organism will only rise to the level of its leadership. Therefore if you have a foot functioning as an eye (to steal a phrase from Paul), the rest of the body is going to be out of whack. Others would say that Jesus can work in spite of that and overcome that. To which I say…”Dogpile.” He “CAN” but He often “DOESN’T”. I’m guessing it’s the whole pearls before swine thing.
Is it redeemable? I think so but that’s where that whole community/repentance thing comes in. Will we choose to value community to the extent it changes how we make decisions and lead?
I’ll land the plane here but I’m open for more conversation if you think I’ve missed something.
15 responses so far ↓
1 Mark // May 24, 2006 at 12:54 pm
Sometimes you have to work with what you got.
I think most would agree in principle to a plurality of leadership and a blending of gifts. But there is a context that probably led to that statement about the buck stopping. I know who you are referring to here, I heard the same thing verbatim at a different meeting. I respect his willingness to step forward at a time when no one else seems to be. Did he mean it to extend beyond this context and to define his view of how the church ought to be led? I don’t know. If he does have that view, we will take his willingness to serve now and beat a more correct notion into him later.
2 Wayne // May 24, 2006 at 2:22 pm
Willingness (or respect thereof) does not equal call/gifting/qualifications.
Is the need the call, though?
3 Mark // May 24, 2006 at 3:22 pm
No, but sometimes that is all you have to work with. Is no leadership worse than a less than perfectly fit leader? Let’s get it out of the realm of ideas. The fact is, there are few of us that have the luxury of our job description perfectly matching our talents and training. Then you have an institution that needs to keep things together in order to pay the mortage payments. Then those responsible for filling positions do not actually know all there is to know about the potential leaders calling/gifting/qualifications until it is too late. I have learned that a person can keep up the impression management at least through the call process. The pathology will come out, and it will come out, after it is too late. Thus we work with less than perfect matches, but we make it work as best we can.
4 Mike S // May 24, 2006 at 10:16 pm
Mark is right. Most good leaders are less than perfect. I once had a CEO/boss who told me that good leaders don’t have to know how to do everything, but they surround themselves with people who do. I think we expect so many of our leaders to be all and everything. I know I have in the past. But I don’t know a leader who “has it all.” That’s one of the reasons I agree with the plurality of leaders, besides, as Grant pointed out - it’s biblical.
I like to see a person of passion for their calling, character, compentency, and cooperation - can/do they work well with the team, are they a fit. I can forgive a lot if see they are trying and are passionate and I see a clear calling on their life.
As Mark pointed out, time will tell if they can the do job.
5 Wayne // May 24, 2006 at 11:07 pm
The question of a perfect fit really shouldn’t even be on the table. The question that lingers is whether willingness can make up for gifting/calling. I think not. Willingness may allow someone to survive for the short-term, but that’s about it. Perhaps, no leader is better than an uncalled/ungifted/misplaced leader?
I have lots of people willing to fill the positions I’m currently hiring for — I’ve found few that are gifted and/or have the right DNA for them (even though on paper they are qualified). If I can find someone who is a 60% fit with the gifting and DNA (and qualified), then I’ll hire them. Someone who is willing (and even energetic about it) and only has 20% fit — forget it.
6 Grant // May 25, 2006 at 12:57 am
Good thoughts, ME and Wayne…I’ve got a post simmering in my brain as a response.
In short - we’ve said it/lived it for years. You lead out of the overflow of who you are and your relationship with Jesus.
that still doesn’t answer ME’s question of what do you do when reality isn’t ideal…
more thoughts coming…
7 Grant // May 25, 2006 at 12:58 am
And Mike - good stuff as well - surround yourself with people better than you.
8 Mark // May 25, 2006 at 10:24 am
Hard to argue with the way you stated it Wayne. I am just thinking specifically of the situation we have at the moment, the one that lead to someone saying the buck stops here. Certainly you are not implying that the person who has “willingly” stepped forward is not called or gifted are you? I am not sure you know him well enough to say that. He has lots of youth experience and has a passion for it. I say let’s give him the benefit of the doubt.
Since I do not blog any more, I will borrow this space to make another point about ministry. I make a distinction between the visible and invisible church. The former is as much a social institution as any other. It has things that need to be done to stay together. Some of these things are not directly related to what the invisible church is up to. It is nice when there some overlap, but it almost never is a complete overlap. A minister is paid by the institution to do work in both “churches.” There is a certain amount of what I call “planting church flowers” that needs to go on if the institution is remain functional (like going to meetings, and keeping the youth program together until we get a “called, gifted, qualified” person in place). We pay ministers to do this stuff. It is no different that my secular job. Much of what I do is not directly related the mission of the invisible church. That I do in the off time. Same thing with ministers. They do not have the luxury of only doing or caring about the “real” work of the ministry, any more than I do.
(This line of thinking is incomplete, but I will stop here).
9 Wayne // May 25, 2006 at 11:16 am
Just for clarity — no, I wasn’t implying that about any one individual. Because, you are right, I do not know that person well enough to make ANY implications. I was generalizing.
10 Mike R // May 25, 2006 at 6:51 pm
Willingness or Ability
Chicken or the egg
You need both.
11 Mark // May 26, 2006 at 9:56 pm
I’d take willing with limited ability over ability that is unwilling anyday.
12 Steve Boehm // May 27, 2006 at 8:47 am
I’ve got a little bit of experience on this subject …
A vast majority of the people that I’ve encountered who have risen to the level of church leadership have all had a pretty good idea of what they think “church” should look like. In some cases, they have desired to be in leadership because the church they are attending no longer fits “the mold” - hence, their opportunity to affect the direction. It becomes easy to set the rules of proper and improper conduct/dress/direction/actions … etc.
My humble opinion is that the missing quality in most church leaders is spirituality. It is difficult, when you are in a church leadership position, to say “I don’t know - I’m waiting to hear from Jesus on this”. It is difficult when eveyone around you demands action to say “Wait - I haven’t heard from God”. And it’s the end of a career to say, “I recognize this is the way we do it, but God is telling us to do something different”. It is much, much easier to set up a set of extra-biblical rules to abide by and to eliminate anything that doesn’t fit … the Pharisees found this to be the case also. “The Buck Stops Hear” … “I know right from wrong, which makes ME the final authority”.
When we continue to elevate Pharisitical thinking men to leadership positions, we will continue to reap legalistic clubs. Pluralism in leadership works until the Pharisee becomes uncomfortable, THEN we meet under the cover of darkness to eliminate the problem (check out the arrest of Jesus - the Pharisees conducted their business in the middle of the night, the pagan Romans did theirs in full view of everyone).
{but I’m not bitter}
13 Wayne // May 27, 2006 at 9:51 am
I thought I felt the earth shake — Steve B., Mr. “I don’t read blogs, I don’t care what other people think” posted…this makes at least twice!!! I do believe we’ll be seeing the Steve Boehm blogspot before long
Anywayn, Steve — great points — even if you aren’t bitter. Love ya bro!
14 Mark // May 27, 2006 at 11:55 am
As long as you are speaking generally, yes, there is truth in most of what is being said here. But the example was not general. It was specific, in a specific context and I am not sure it is fair at this stage in the game to sit on the sidelines and throw pot shots. Some church flowers need to be planted. We can be high minded and let someone else do it. In fact, let’s let the those unenlightened people do it, because, afterall, it’s just church flowers designed to make the visible church keep doing what it does.
There is another option here that no one seems to be talking about.
15 Mark // May 27, 2006 at 10:27 pm
Derek: You guys are not talking about the same thing. I think you all agree. Besides, nobody knows what the heck you are talking about.
ME: Yeah, I know, but it makes for better blogging.
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