sides
“I only disciple guys that I’m doing life with. So if you’re not in my Life Group or doing ministry with me, I’m not discipling you.”
I could tell the words shocked him. He went from smiling to jaw hanging open astonishment. There was no anger or tension between us. I like this guy. I’d love to hang with this guy. He wants to become more of a man of God. He’s a good man already. But he’s looking for more.
It was the last of 5 hard conversations I had on Sunday. The other four wanted personal, face to face, extended attention. Life had one way or another got upside down on them. They were in crisis. Needed some help. Wanted someone to walk through the crisis with them.
I’m flattered they trusted me enough to talk to me. I am. But the problem is - there is only one of me. Besides that…as many of the comments on this blog will attest…I’m not that smart.
I listened to each one. Their issues were varied but each had come to a crossroads of sorts. A tragedy in a family. A trust broken in another. A man wanting to become more of a man of God. After each one got finished, I asked the same question.
“Are you in a Life Group?”
No.
“Are you serving in a ministry with a team?”
No.
“Do you have any other believers that you meet with regularly to pray and study the Bible together?”
No.
After each one, there was a long pause and a look at me like - “What has this got to do with my problem?” After each one, I had the same conversation inside my head with God.
I don’t want to say what You are telling me to say. I asked the questions. You help them figure it out on their own. I don’t want to have this conversation, that’s why. Because I don’t want to be the bad guy. No, God. No. Okay…fine.
So I’d ask….”Why not?”
Every answer was the same…too inconvenient. Too busy. Another night out.
“How much would it be worth right now to know that you had 5 other couples you could call, cry with, pray with, laugh with, be real with - no masks - people that could walk with you through this crisis?”
Would it be worth 2 or 3 nights a month? The inconvenience of getting kids to bed late once in awhile? The inconvenience of having someone spill something on your carpet? Or break a Xbox controller? Is it worth a 12 pack every other week? Would it be worth just those 3 or 4 nights a year of bitter cold, having to wait on the car to warm up and scrape snow and ice off the windshield?
I told each them - “The greatest moments of healing and transformation in my life have come because of the community I’ve chosen to do life with.”
The jaw was still slightly opened. I shrugged my shoulders.
I leveled with him. If we started this discipleship thing, you’ll make some changes. Those changes are going to have a profound impact on your family. Your wife is going to need some godly woman around her, just like you’re going to need more than just me around you. That’s a Life Group. We’ll challenge each other. The two or three coffees a month will have a much great impact if we’re in a Life Group together. But the best first step in becoming a man of God is realizing you can’t do it alone then doing something about that.
And the truth of the matter is this - it would be easier, more convenient, and safer to hole up and stay private. It’d be easier to let people believe that I’m more patient than what I really am, smarter than I really am, and more together than what I really am. Tons easier.
But it wouldn’t be better.
12 responses so far ↓
1 Paul // Oct 14, 2008 at 4:44 pm
That’s the Grant I know and love. BTW, we are doing a retreat on this very thing this weekend.
2 wayne // Oct 14, 2008 at 7:11 pm
So, what if inconvenience, too busy, another night out are NOT the reasons, but rather excuses that mask the real reason? What if the real reasons are been there, done that, got the t-shirt, got the tattoo and nipple ring, got the scars, got the heart, soul and mind ripped out, stomped on and left to bleed out by those who you served with, life-grouped with, did community with? What if the reasons are that those for whom you took your mask off and who ostensibly reciprocated ended up being the ones that did the carving up of your heart? What if instead of the greatest moments of transformation occurring in community, the greatest tragedies in your life occurred in this so-called safe-place and totally removed those transformations from you? What if?
Do you discount that person, send them packing because that coffee time isn’t as valuable without the associated community you speak of ?
Do you force your protocol of life group, service, etc on them up front, or do you lead them to that conclusion?
Is this a situation of the rich young ruler where you play the role of Jesus and say “go, sale all that you have and follow me?” Or are you flexible to let God work in methods outside of your defined protocol?
3 Grant // Oct 14, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Good questions…
You and I both have had the fake/rip your heart experience.
But we’ve also had the real thing.
So one place to start in response to your questions is with another question… was the ‘real’ community worth plowing through the fake?
My answer is yes. Steve, Harry, you and me walked through hell and back. And although I wouldn’t wish what happened in LR on anybody - I wouldn’t trade the relationships I walked away with for anything.
But back to the other questions…
All discipleship starts where you are…not where we want to be.
For this guy it WAS a matter of convenience, not hurt. So that’s where we start.
If it had been hurt - we’d start differently. Like asking the question is real community worth the risk?
4 Kim King // Oct 14, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Just want to say thanks for sharing all you do on your blog. It’s quite refreshing to still share life with you across the miles. I’ve had only a few people speak truth to me like you have, Grant, and I’m a better person for all of those - including you. I’m praying the hard truth from your mouth to these guys impacts them as it did me many moons ago. Sending love to you and the fam! I’m hoping and praying for a Colorado vacation again next summer!
5 Gene // Oct 15, 2008 at 10:36 am
Since I’ve experienced your discipleship I would strongly endorse your prerequisite for participation in a Life Group or other ministry with you. Doing life together.
It wasn’t the coffee time, or tea in my case, that helped me to grow and “be discipled”. It was the process of building on real situations and discussions from our Life Group that really helped me grow. It was the process of digging deeper into the Bible or principle to understand how I could grow and help others do the same in context of our experience together.
What better way is there to help someone learn more about themselves, relationships, and God then from shared experiences?
Another plus is that you are giving your disciple a context and place to grow if you’re serving together. I was able to immediately and safely apply what I was learning through being a leader in training with our Life Group.
6 Grant // Oct 15, 2008 at 10:45 am
Always be wary of tea drinkers…
Thanks for the endorsements…but what about Wayne’s final comment/question…
Is there room for something different? If so, what?
7 Gene // Oct 15, 2008 at 3:47 pm
I am not sure I have a real solid answer to Wayne’s last question about operating outside of Grant’s “defined protocol”. What would that look like? Well, first I think it would be more difficult to build the huge amount of trust you need in that relationship if you aren’t sharing a significant part of your life with that person.
In my experience it also gives you the “what did you think about …?” type interfaces when you share experiences. If it is just a weekly morning coffee, how deep can you get? You need some kind of context in which to experience how the person is living their life.
Although I don’t think I would reject the chance of building a relationship and eventually discipling someone if they are doing it for the right reason. The reason primarily being a true desire for life change through a growing relationship with Christ. That can be hard to gauge until you’ve built that relationship though.
8 Tom // Oct 15, 2008 at 5:36 pm
I think this a great discussion. I think the best thing about Grant’s answer is due to boundaries. Many pastors and lay people can’t say “NO” to legitimate ministry opportunties. Therefore, they steal the opportunities from others in the body that need to be filling that gap. I think there are others that can fill the gap in these guys lives. Too many churches have only a few people going deep and diving into these things and it is the road to burnout for those few.
I also know that you, Grant, would dive in if you had a sense that the Holy Spirit was leading you that way. He holds the trump card.
9 MarkE // Oct 16, 2008 at 11:47 am
Wayne:
Wow! Your life group was much more exciting than mine!
One of the problems with small group ministry is that they are somewhat forced. You get a group of people together that otherwise would not be friends (otherwise you probably would already be) and you pretend you are friends and “doing life” together.
Most life groups are mainly discussion groups. I would not count that as discipleship. Discipleship is a specific thing, that does not necessarily require friendship.
One other cynical point, vulnerability may be necessary but it certainly is not sufficient.
I have been involved in small groups for 30 years. When it works, it’s good. Mostly, though, they don’t work. I have given up on the traditional model most churches use.
You want to learn to be like Jesus? Good, let’s go down under the bridge and practice.
10 wayne // Oct 16, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Mark –
Unfortunately, it wasn’t just ONE life group that has happened in…Grant is using one in particular as a reference point — which was like a rebound girlfriend for me, but I have MULTIPLE reference points….lots of data. The one disconcerting thing is that I seem to be the common point in the data set. hmmm????
I tend to agree with your observations on the current “model” of the church and life groups. I also agree that vulnerability may be necessary but not sufficient. I also observe from a discipleship point of view, vulnerability may not need to be two-way. I mean, how vulnerable are you with your patients/clients? Again, though, there is no hard fast line in those regards in my mind.
Maybe your under the bridge model is the “right one”; maybe it isn’t — I’ve been thinking about it a lot. It’s definitely a stretch for the suburban church who likes discipling each other over a hot starbuck’s. I’m not sure how often Jesus would have been in a starbucks. WWJD (What would Jesus Drink?) –> surely not a $5 latte!
My mind and heart longs for something black and white, not shades of gray. Are we hot, cold, or lukewarm? In all honesty, I’m pretty tepid right now. But I have lived in black and white as well and allowed myself to be judgemental of those not in that same mindset (ala this is how a “good Christian” lives/behaves/raises kids)–while there is plenty that could be argued to be black and white, I’m afraid there are at least 256 shades of gray in between.
Grant/Gene — I don’t know that there is an answer to my last question. I think it is ludicrous to say that anyone following the “lead of the Spirit” would reject that leading to not do things in a typical defined way. Why do yo have to define what it would “look like” a priori? I don’t think you do? I also think there were plenty of times that Jesus discipled w/o having relationship with the person — e.g., the woman caught in adultery. Perhaps Grants interaction with this man caught up in excuses of inconvenience was just that?? “Go and be inconvenienced no more”.
11 wayne // Oct 16, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Also, I realize that the woman caught in adultery might not be considered as traditional “discipling”, but it certainly wasn’t what I would consider reproof or rebuke. Also to Mark’s model of “doing it” there is plenty of evidence of Jesus discipling by taking action and doing and being moved to compassion. Maybe he and the disciples hung out at shesha bars together — I don’t know.
12 Grant // Oct 16, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Mark - agreed…forced never works, best discipleship takes place serving along side each other. Under the bridge, after school, in the city.
Wayne - the thought that ran through my mind when he asked me was this - if the only reason you’re not in community with other believers is that is takes too much time - that’s where our discipleship will start. Start making time for it.
As far as necessity of vulnerability - I think it’s necessary for long-term, significant life change. Maybe it isn’t for cosmetic changes…I don’t know. Hard to gauge spiritual transformation in other people.
I do know. I THINK there is a ceiling of life change that can take place without it.
For everyone else - click on MarkE’s name and go subscribe to his blog. He will challenge you with both his insight and humility.
Plus, he’s a good friend.
Leave a Comment